La Luz del Mundo

The Light of the World sits on I-59 North.  Look for the frieze and columns which look similar to the Greek Pantheon.

Iglesia del Dios vivo Columna y Apoyo de la Verdad



167 thoughts on “La Luz del Mundo

  1. hnos la luz del mundo sabemos de la gran existensia la luz del mundo el senor sea k nos bendiga para atraer a la jente a nuestra santa convocasion dios sea k los bendiga en el nombre de dios amen les ruego de sus orasiones para rsibir mi presentasion en este ano k biene en enero 31 para poder ser de buen testimonio dios los bendiga………………………………..

  2. la luz del mundo es la puerta para alcansar la bida eterna ……………………………

    1. the owner of this website who does not reveal himself cowardly attacks the leader of the light of the world church. Presenting bogus information like all the rest of the contrary thought of men and women who do not take time to really investigate our principles and doctrinal way of life. Not to become a member of affiliate of the church, but to educate people based on facts and not personal feeling or thoughts. On the other hand we are a people who do nothing in private or hide ourselves from the public around us, on the contrary we want people to know the truth about our way of life.

    2. Heather,
      you really want to know how this church and internation leader is…. contact me via email. I will make the time and explain it as best as possible. maybe after you hear what I will tell you, your point of view will be just a little different. I am an active member and will be for the rest of my life god willing… I will tell you my life story and what Samuel has done for me and my family and my church and how he has changed my life for the better…. If Im considered an honest person, If Im considered hardworking, if I have any good traits well guess…. yep Samuel Joaquin has showed me.. If Im good its cause of him… you want to hear more contact me.

      god bless.

  3. yo estube ahi en la construccion y fue la experiencia mas hermosa de mi vida es lo unico bueno ke he hecho

  4. Kind regards to all,

    This blog site seems to be in nature a site regarding the physical building owned an built by La Luz Del Mundo (LLDM) and not a site to discusse LLDM as a orgination, but with “alfred’s” comment, “the owner of this website who does not reveal himself cowardly attacks the leader of the light of the world church”, has done just that opened the floor for that very discussion as to what LLDM is and what is it’s doctrine and faith or rather were its faith is placed.

    PW (Heather) ? – asked the question as to what are the services like at LLDM. Before you can understand what LLDM service is like you have to know what LLDM believes.

    In a nut shell LLDM believes that there must to be a “Man of God” here on earth for mankind to receive salvation from Jesus Christ this is called the “time for salvation”. LLDM teaches that with the death of the last original apostle John around the year 100 a.d. approximately 2000 years this “time for salvation” ended and the truth of Jesus Christ lift the earth, or was hidden way from mankind not to return until another “Man of God” or Apostle is revealed to man here on earth.

    LLDM teaches that it was not until the year 1926 with the self proclaimed new “man of God” Aaron Flores, who is the father of the current LLDM leader Samuel Joaquin, declared that the “time for salvation” had returned to the world through him. With his death (cause of death unknown!) his youngest son Samuel took over and declared himself the new “Man of God” and even gave himself the title of Apostle so that the “time for salvation” may continue uninterrupted.

    This uninterrupted time for salvation is the only reason that LLDM is still inexistence to this day because with out a “Man of God” on earth there is no salvation and therefore no reason for any churches at all.

    So if you were to become a member of LLDM you must first believe and declare your faith in not Jesus Christ, but in Samuel Joaquin as your earthly savior and only then would you be allow to be baptized.

    LLDM also teaches since Samuel Joaquin is the only true “Man of God” here on earth that if you are not baptized by one of his authorized pastors (disciples) you will not receive forgiveness for your sins and therefore will not receive salvation from Jesus Christ through Samuel Joaquin.

    This is very similar to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC), and no I am not of the faith of the RCC.

    If you would like more information please email me at;

    I also have a blog site that goes into more detail about LLDM’s doctrines and faith in Samuel Joaquin for salvation.

    God’s blessing to all through the Lord Jesus Christ and by His Holy Spirit.

    1. Christopher,
      impressive research,unfortunately its somebody elses research that you obtained off line. Again I humbly ask that you base your research on actual research not somebody elses work publicized on the web.I belive that when you study or reseach anything it should be in sincerity and honest interest not with unproductive motives but productive ones, whether they reveal lies or unstable facts,which can point people in a better direction or finding integral and honest characteristics and attributes that can assist people to live a better life.

      1. Alfred,

        My research is exactly that, my research and it all comes from my first hand eye witness exprences over the past 7 years and continues to this day.

  5. As Christopher has pointed out, this cult called La Luz del Mundo centers its faith on the quote in quote apostle Samuel. Basically, this church lies in that you have to believe in Samuel for salvation and that outside of this church, that there is NO salvation!

    The church is an abomination.

    Samuel is no apostle. LLDM has been lying to people for a very long time, do not fall into their trap to enrich their apostle with money.

  6. lpds to eveyone i belong to the church lldm am from redlands CA am happy to be in this church because it has change my life a lot. i believe in that there is a APOSTLE in this church because he has shown us his love and because his has given us that example. dont close ur heart people open ur eyes and see the true that this church has.. some day u will see the true and ur gonna feel bad for what you said i will pray for all of you people that some day you will open your eyes and see that there is a APOSTLE DE DIOS in this world and that this is the true church… may god bless you all

  7. Christopher—in what way is what you describe as LLDM similar to the Catholic Church? According to you, LLDM believes in a present day prophet who “resurrected” the defunct Christian faith that had gone dormant with the death of St. John. This storyline is more closely related to Joseph Smith and the Mormon religion.

    Catholics certainly don’t believe that the church Christ established went away only to be brought back by some present-day prophet. Catholics believe Christ established an everlasting church and chose twelve men to lead the church on earth through the intervention and inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Catholics also believe Christ appointed St. Peter as the “rock” or head of the church on earth, and that a continuous line of successors have led the church since St. Peter. Catholics believe that after Christ ascended into heaven, He sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to strengthen and direct the apostles. By having His church led by a pope and bishops inspired by the Holy Spirirt, Christ instituted a teaching authority on Earth, ensuring that God’s truths would remain consistent over the centuries, instead of the relativistic theology and morality that occurs when every individual decides what is right and wrong, true and false for himself.

  8. John,

    There are quit a few similaries between the RCC and LLDM’s form of government over their churches.

    But the main similarity is in the fact the both RCC and LLDM teach that there is no salvation to man here on Earth unless there is an apostle (Pope) with “Apostolic Authority” to forgive sins. For RCC that is a Pope and for LLDM it is an apostle differnet names same meaning.

  9. Christopher,

    Thanks for clarifying your point. However, Catholics believe salvation comes from faith in Christ and by baptism into His Church. One must believe in Christ and follow His commands (a person cannot be a true follower of Christ he refuses to obey Christ).

    As far as forgiveness of sins is concerned, Catholics believe a person can (and should frequently) ask God to forgive his sins. However, Catholics also believe Christ instituted the sacrament of Confession when He ordered His apostles to stand in His place to forgive sins (in personam Christi). The biblical basis for this is John 20:23 (“Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”)

  10. Obviously, I can’t speak for LLDM. As for myself, obeying Christ is looking at what He taught during His three years of ministry (the ultimate role model) and applying it in my life as best I can. It’s the “as best I can,” that’s so important. We know Christ expects a lot (from those whom much is given, much is expected) but He is ever-patient, loving and forgiving. Therefore, to obey Him is to put forth the effort He deserves, and when we falter, seek His forgiveness and keep on going.

  11. The key to everything is to look at Christ alone for salvation and that it is only through His blood we receive forgiveness from our sin. The RCC teaches that one can not receive forgiveness from their sin unless that forgiveness comes from an anointed priest under the authority of the Pope. The priest are ambassators of the Pope and are acting in his behalf. So it is with LLDM how teaches that anyone wanted to receive forgiviness from their sins can only do so if they are forgiven by one of Samuel Joaquin’s anointed disciples (pastors) who are acting on his behalf.

    So the point still stands that in both the RCC and LLDM teach that there most be an anointed “one” from God so that mankind may receive forgiviness. They both do not point only to Christ Jesus for forgivness, they are both acting as “gatekeeper” deciding who will and will not receive forgiveness from sins. This is what has lead to what I call the business of religion. He who controls the forgivness controls on only the hearts but the wallets as well.

    Salvation is only through the Christ Jesus who is still alive and well and has been their for all unto salvation nonstop for the past 2000 years and not as LLDM teaches that salvation left the earth 2000 years ago only to return to the earth 1926 with Eusbain Joaquin (a.k.a. Aaron Joaquin) and now with his son Samuel the gatekeepers of salvation.

    With all love in Christ Jesus, my Mastor, I say that this is a false teaching and is not what the Word of God teaches.

    Read the book of Ephesians and when you come to this verses please give extra thought to it.

    Ephesians 3:20-21 – “Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generation for ever and ever! Amen”

    Here the apostle Paul is declaring that all glory to God through Christ Jesus that will continue “throughout all generatation for ever and ever”. This statement is declaring to all that Christ Jesus and his saving power and grace is for ever and at the time Paul wrote this letter he was pointing to all future generations will receive forgivness of sin through the gosple and not just a few remaining generation until the death of the last original apostle only to return sometime 2000 years later in 1926, but for ever because salvation is through Christ Jesus and the Lorde Jesus Christ is for ever! Amen

    1. I just read your response.

      You are correct that forgiveness only comes from and through Jesus Christ. And as I quoted in a previous post, Jesus expressly gave authority to his apostles, and their predecessors, to forgive sins in His name. No priest, bishop, or pope can forgive sins in his own name but only in the name of Jesus Christ. This is the system Christ established and it makes sense, since it allows a penitent to come to a priest and receive advice on how to overcome certain sins that may be plaguing the penitent. I agree with you, Christopher, that nothing good occurs except through Jesus Christ, who will be with us until the end of time.

    2. I to am a member of lldm RedLands n u say that in order to b a member of the la luz del mundo u need to ” first believe and declare your faith in not Jesus Christ, but in Samuel Joaquin” there is one of the many places u r wrong we r taught by SJF and in the bible (not sure in eat txt) tat if u believe in him u r believe in jesus there fore u r believe in god so we do put our faith in jesus thou SJF

  12. its a really pretty church keep up the god work y que dios los bendiga y lo siga prosperando


  13. The wonderful church La Luz Del Mundo this is the truth by the Lord and lead by the Servant of God may the Lord bless the beautiful church of houston and the members it carries. DLB

  14. Dear lldm14,

    “if u believe in him u r believe in jesus there fore u r believe in god so we do put our faith in jesus thou SJF”

    Correct me if I am reading you wrong, but the very statement of mine that you are saying is not correct (LLDM teaches that you most believe SJF first) is supported by your statement that I have quoted above.

    You just stated yourself that you have been taught by LLDM that you must go through SJF first in order to receive the “Free Gift of Grace and Salvation” from Jesus Christ. This is not what the Holy Scripture teaches. Read the Gosple of John by your self and read it out loud too so that you may hear for yourself the very words of God the Father. You will learn that that for one to receive the holy knowledge for salvation is only through Jesus Christ the Lord.

    All of the original aposple especially the one whom SJF reference so much, Paul, never teaches that we most believe in them first in order to have access to the Lord Jesus and then to the Father.

    It all starts and ends with the Lord Jesus Christ, Amen!

  15. I am a good ole’ Southern Baptist and we ask Jesus Christ directly to forgive our sins. The bible warns us to beware false profits (no, I didn’t spell it wrong, this is a money making machine). Any man that claims he is powerful enough to impede my personal relationship with Christ himself, that tells me I must go through him to be forgiven and saved is just this side of evil. Drop down on your knees beside your bed and give your life directly to Christ himself. No one needs these mega corporate churches standing between the people and God. This monument to Mr. Jackson reeks of the ancient Egyptian pharaohs and their belief that they are God’s on Earth spending their lives building temples unto themselves. Look to God’s Holy Word and develop a personal relationship with Christ. Con artist Sammy here, does not speak to God for me, I do that myself!

  16. I don’t know how long ago all these comments were made but I feel I should clarify some items christopher mentioned.
    The church La Luz Del Mundo does not say that Samuel Joaquin forgives us our sins. It is through our own pesonal faith that we should go and seek forgives through prayer and meditation. Its is also not certain if we are forgiven only time will tell when Jesus comes for his blessed children.
    Also the Apostle of God is not like the ‘RRC’ (as you mention it) since the members of the church nor the pastors apointed him. It was revealed by faith.
    As for an earlier comment about belief in him to be baptized, the order was incorrect. Firstly u should believe that Jesus Chirst lived and died for us

  17. Then through that faith Lord willing you would believe that there is a present day Apostle here to GUIDE us not to grant salvation.

    If you have any ither questions please feel free to stop buy the church and ask to speak to the pastor.

  18. I was always skeptical about this church, so I did my research with an open mind.
    I listened to what they had to say and to what their accusers said.
    I have also spoken to various apostates of this church, but it was futile. They are hateful and rancorous individuals who seek vengeance. Some of the reasons they left LLDM is because they disagreed on the church’s view on instrumental music, role of women and the role Dr. Samuel Joaquin.
    I also read the writings of pseudo-professionals like Jorge Elderly, Renee de la Torre, etc…
    I was just simply amazed at their lack of professionalism. They are fear mongers and demagogues, accusing LLDM members of willing to commit collective suicide and of institutionalizing sexual abuse.
    I also read Jorge Elderly’s TERRORISMO RELIGIOSO, a book full of lies. I happen to have studied Islamic beliefs, and also have Muslim friends as well as friends who are members of the Unification Church. I confirmed that he speaks only lies and is extremely biased. I wouldn’t be amazed if he was targeted by Muslim extremists.
    Then I used databases to find articles on the subject and also analyzed the testimonies of those who claim to have been sexually abused, and each time the told the story it was a totally different version, even different dates.
    It is amazing how people are now using the media to destroy their enemies.
    America believes in presumption of innocence, individuals are innocent until proven guilty. Therefore Dr. Samuel Joaquin Flores is innocent, he has never even been called to appear before any court.
    I find Dr. Samuel Joaquin’s teachings truly a light in this world. I admire his humanistic values and humanitarian efforts.
    He is a very tolerant man (although he always speaks against Catholicism) and very humble (He never brags about what he does, you have to read newspapers or visit LLDM’s sites to know about his contributions to society).
    He also stresses great emphasis on education. He also rejects fanaticism, teaching his followers to read the Bible and listen to other denominations.

    The only thing that bothers me about LLDM is their borderline worship form of honoring Dr. Joaquin.

    If I were not so skeptical about religion and God’s existence, I would be a devout follower of Samuel Joaquin.

  19. La paz del senor sea con todos mis hermanos. Les mando un saludo desde Lumberton Norte Carolina. Solo les quiero decir que sigamos adelante junto con el Apostol Santo de Dios. Y nosotros jovenes que nos armemos de valentia y defendamos al Apostol. Si es nesesario con nuestra propia vida.
    Dios les bendiga y les grade siempre…….

  20. Do you really believed that we buy your lies “Thinker”?
    You are a fanatic member of LLDM. Your vocabulary uncovers you.
    Calling academic researchers like Rene de la Torre and others “pseudo-professionals” just because they do not align their findings to the benefit of the colossal money-making machine that LLDM has become, identifies you.
    You’re one of them.

    1. @Morningstar
      ‘academic researchers’ ??? Really???
      Have you read any of their publications?????? And I don’t mean only publications relating to lldm.

      And I’ll admit I was once one of them. I am atheist now though.

  21. Please brothers, just take a careful look at the emblem in the facade of the house (a little palace) in the back of the temple on the Eastex Fwy. in Houston.
    This “little trianon” is the residence of Samuel Joaquin Flores, the capo di cappi in LLDM (La Luz del Mundo) when he’s in Houston for his regular rejuvenation treatment in the John Hopkins Hospital.
    The emblem is the seal or “escudo de armas” of the reigning dinasty in LLDM, “The Joaquin”.
    It is an emblem representing TWO BLACK WOLVES.


  22. In the bible it says that Jesus died for our sins, so if the apostle of LLDM believes that once a year he is able to take the sins of people then he is calming to be Jesus he is calming to be God it is as simple as that. Read the bible our salvation is only threw Jesus not any one else so after saying this I say that there souled not be any arguments unless some one can find proof that an apostle died for us on a cross and is our lord Jesus Christ.

  23. Hello.

    As a member of LLDM, it is sad to hear when people say that what we teach is not biblical, when everything we say and do has an example in the Bible.
    I started answering all these questions using only bible verses in the thread bellow:

    It is a pleasure for me to answer questions only with biblical verses.
    Please visit here and let the word of God speak for itself.

    May God bless you.

    1. Nikita
      Praising the apostol and singing songs to any apostol is not biblical.
      Celebrating the apostols birthday is not biblical.
      The apostil having the power to save is not biblical, only Jesus is our savior.
      Taking money from the poor and making them cook for the churches is not biblical.
      Jesus would never take but only give.

  24. First of all, who said that we praising apostle or sing songs to him?
    If the song about the apostle, it doesn’t mean that we sing it to him.
    We sing songs to God in the name of Jesus Christ.

    Jesus is indeed our only savior, but he is using apostles to bring us to him.
    They also have a special authority to forgive sins. Please read some verses bellow:

    John 17:18-22
    18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the
    20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through
    their word;
    21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may
    be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
    22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as
    we are one:

    John 20:18-22
    21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even
    so send I you.
    22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the
    Holy Ghost:
    23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye
    retain, they are retained.

    John 13:20
    20Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and
    he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

    Tithes and offering are biblical and are not enforced by anyone, but by the personal faith of each member. And please, no one makes anyone cook. It is all voluntary according to everyone’s faith.

  25. Like alway LLDM twists the verses and dwell on those few that you stated.

    John 12:44-48 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. … He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
    Jesus is speaking here.
    If you have read the bible you would know that we are no longer slaves to any thing or any one because of the blood of Jesus. You my dear, and LLDM members are all slaves to the apostil and to the church of LLDM. I know exactly what is going on and the people that I know are very poor and are not even on welfare, they are all being taken advantage of, used, and are stressful all the time as long as they are slaves to the church of LLDM. Do not tell me that I do not know what I am talking about, I know exactly what I am saying and I know that it is not biblical to have to believe in the apostil to be baptized. There are many things more going on but I have better things to do then to go around in circles with you.

    1. Please read again this verse bellow. It clearly says that if you receive anyone whom Jesus send, you will receive him as well. It applies to apostles as well. Don’t you remember when Jesus sent apostles to preach, he said go to a city and preach and if they receive you not, turn around and leave. I will be more tolerant with Sodom and Gomorrah than with that city,

      John 13:20
      20Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and
      he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

      Think about it this way, if a king send a messenger to deliver a message and people receive him not, they also reject the king whose message it is. It applies to anyone Christ has send. Whether or not you believe that Samuel Joaquin is a true apostle
      of Jesus Christ or not, we can discuss this later, but the argument that ut is not important to believe in a messenger of Jesus is not biblical.

    2. Please read again this verse above “John 13:20”. It clearly says that if you receive anyone whom Jesus send, you will receive him as well. It applies to apostles as well. Don’t you remember when Jesus sent apostles to preach, he said go to a city and preach and if they receive you not, turn around and leave. I will be more tolerant with Sodom and Gomorrah than with that city,

      Think about it this way, if a king send a messenger to deliver a message and people receive him not, they also reject the king whose message it is. It applies to anyone Christ has send. Whether or not you believe that Samuel Joaquin is a true apostle
      of Jesus Christ or not, we can discuss this later, but the argument that ut is not important to believe in a messenger of Jesus is not biblical.

      If you still disagree with my understanding of John 13:20 and think that we twist the word of God, please give everyone an explanation why that verse does not apply to apostles.
      To any apostle for that matter.

      Thank you for your patience.

      1. Nikita Jesus was sent to us by God 2011 years ago to die for our sins so that we would be forgiven in the name of Jesus Christ. Why am I going to be blind and believe in this apostil form LLDM that changed the words of God into his own words? Why should any one believe in this apostil that comes along barely 60 years ago calming that he was sent by God. Sorry but only blind brained washed people would believe such a ridicules story that has absolutely no proof. Jesus has his proof and that is the bible. This apostil is not preaching what Jesus wants us to preach but rather he is teaching a whole different doctrine. That is how I know that the apostil from LLDM is false. Oh and by the way You did not explain why in the world this apostil is taking advantage of the poor, and If you think I am dumb enough to believe that all of these poor people are doing it out of their hearts then you are wrong. It is different for some one to do something good out of their hearts and it is different when the apostil is taking advantage of their true genuine love that people have for God for his own benefits and glory. I alrady know that you are all brain washed because to you it is normal for the poor to pay a lot of money to see this apostil every year for his birthday. You oveusly had never read the bible for your self because you would know that the love of Jesus is the opposite of this apostil Samuel. Samual is not of God and he is the enemy of God. Everything that is done is selfish and wrong and you will never see that why? because you are brain washed to believe what ever it is preached to you.

  26. With all the respect, when you say that we do not read bible and are brainwashed, all of my arguments are biblicaly based with verses provided. All of your arguments except that Jesus is our only savior, which by the way I never disagreed with, are solely your own opinion. When you say that we, including apostle, twist the word of God, where is the evidence? In my previous reply, I gave very clear verses with questions for you. I still hope that we can use biblical argument on both side of our conversation and not only on mine.
    Thank you.

  27. There should be no one else to save us but Jesus. we are to be baptized in the name of Jesus not Jesus and the apostil. and do not try to say that it is not true because i have been to lldms baptizams before.
    1 Timothy 2:5-6
    “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.”

    2 Corinthians 5:17
    “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

  28. I will remind what a minister says when he baptizes.
    “I’m baptizing you in the name of Jesus Christ by the authority of apostle of the lord given to me.”
    There are some little differences, but the meaning is the same. It is in the mane of Jesus by the authority of apostle.

  29. That is so sweet how you sugar code I’m baptizing you in the name of Jesus Christ do you believe in Samuel that he is sent by God? That is the LLDMs problem, we do not need any authority from the apostle, we just need Jesus.
    The sad thing about LLDM is that everyone has been deceived by the apostil, everyone believes that they have to believe in him to be saved but that is completely the opposite of what God tells us in the bible.

    John 14:6
    God the Son – Lord Jesus testifies – “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
    Acts 4:12
    “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
    Romans 10:8-13
    “But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved….”Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

    That is what the bible says Nikita, If you do not believe what Jesus is saying in the bible then you would be calling God a lyre. LLDm believes that it is by hard work and attending church every day or three times a day would save them but that is not true.

  30. Concerning I Timothy 2:5. Before I give you an explanation, please tell me what does Jesus as the mediator do and how is it connected with the role of apostles because we do not say that apostle is a mediator between us and God. The role of apostles is well defined in the bible, so please also say who else has the authority to baptize besides apostles?

    John 14:6. Please first explain why we can only come to God except through Jesus and then tell me how we put apostle in that place.

    Acts 4:12. We do not do anything in the name other than Jesus Christ.

    Romans 10:8-13. This are beautiful verses, but maybe you first try to bring to remembrance the one who put the word of God in their mouth?
    I believe, it will answer most of your questions of the importance of apostles.

    Also, if you honestly believe that everyone that just says “I believe in Jesus Christ and that resurrected” are automatically get salvation. Then with is the purpose of all the letters of apostles extorting church, to stay pure, scaring us with punishment in hell? Just say
    “I BELIEVE” and you are saved. Please answer this question, or else, I will answer it for you.

    I’m sorry to note that you believe the words of Jesus selectively. Otherwise, you would already answered the meaning of the verse “John 13:20.”

    Sorry, I’m not trying to offend you, but trying to keep the conversation honest.

    Thank you.

  31. Again LLDM dwells on one verse and there is no proof that Samual was sent by god to change the true teachings of the bible. you are wrong, you do have to believe in the apostil from LLDM to be saved and that is what LLDM teaches. You are sugar coding it again. And we do not need to go to church to be saved why because the bible says.
    John 4:23-24
    23 “But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24 “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

    The context of this text is a discussion that Jesus has with the woman at the well. She correctly recognizes Jesus and asks him a question regarding the appropriate place to worship God. Jesus teaches that the place for worship was of no consequence to God. It does not matter whether we worship in the city or in the country. It does not matter whether we are in a house or in a tent, or in an open field. The place where we worship has nothing to do with whether the worship is acceptable to God.
    Go ahead and read that whole page you will see that it is true what the bible is telling us.

    I am sorry to say this but you will never know the true teaching of God as long as you are believing what you are being taught by LLDM. The only way you would be able to know the truth is by reading the whole new testament and then come back to me so we can talk. God bless you.
    If you truly care for your soal, do not put it in someone elses had but God. Read the bible your self and do the research before you try to argue about things that you do not truly know but had been taught. I can not believe any one that comes to me and says hey this is what God said unless I had done my research on it my self to see if it is true. You were born to believe what they have taught you and you will never open your eyes to the truth until you decide to find the truth.

  32. Apostles Paul, Peter, James, John ext. The once that are found in the bible. Do you believe that they were true apostles? Now, lets say you lived in the first century AD and Paul comes to you and says, like he started most of his letters, “I’m Paul servant of God chosen by the will of the lord, come and be my follower.” And you will answer: “I do not want to be your follower because only following Jesus brings salvation. And who are you at all to tell me that? You haven’t even seen our Lord Jesus like other apostles. Go away!”

    Now, please answer one simple question. After doing that, do you still receive Jesus Christ?

  33. Nikita like you said apostiles in the time of Christ, how blind are you to believe in any one that came 2011 years after Christ claiming to be his angel?
    Before there was no bible for us to guide us to the truth. Now there is a bible for everyone to read and receive the truth. We do not need any one to translate what the bible is telling us, we have eyes to see and the brain to read so use it and read the truth. Again you can not fight a fight that you do not know anything about until you read the bible on your own.

    “Jesus answered them, ‘Watch out that no one misleads you. For many will come in my name, saying, “I am the Christ,” and they will mislead many … Then if anyone says to you, “Look, here is the Christ!” or “There he is!” do not believe him. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Remember, I have told you ahead of time.’” Matthew 24:4-5, 23-25

    What you do not understand is that what ever things you have to say about the apostils first of all there is no proof that samual is a true apostil, second of all apostils were were never angels of God, third of all apostils can not take sins only Jesus can and finally Jesus had finished what he needed to tell us in the bible, I am not dumb enough to believe in a man that makes up his own rules and has his slaves for his churches. No thank you I am not interested to be anyone’s slave only for God and I can do that at home. oveusly you do not believe in the power of God that he can hear our prayers no matter where we are at and oveusly you do not believe that what Jesus did was good enough because you need the apostil.

  34. So, after all it is important to receive apostle of God, if he is a true apostle.

    Now, you say that there is no need for apostles these days because we have new testament written. Answer please, is this assumption based upon any text in the bible or not?

  35. Nikita I told you that there is nothing to talk about unless you read the bible your self. How will you know that what LLDM is preaching to you is true or not with out reading the bible your self? How would you know if any religion is true or not with out reading the bible. You can not argue about something you do not truly know for your self, you are only protecting what you have been taught not what God is telling you. And no it is not important to receive an apostil or any one, Jesus was sent for us to be saved we can only be saved in the name of Jesus Christ and no other name in the world can you be saved except threw the blood of Jesus Christ.

    “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.” (John 5:24)

    “… And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; He who does not have the Son of God does not have life.” (1 John 5:11)

    “And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.” (1 John 4:14)
    you will not understand these verses because you are not reading the bible to see if it is all true.

  36. You have not answered my previous question.
    Please do not skip and jump all over the place.
    I’m still waiting for your answer.

    Also here are your own words: “And no it is not important to receive an apostil or any one.” So if you really believe that it is not important to receive one that Christ sent us including the twelve apostles and Paul, then you openly reject Jesus Christ our Lord.

    John 13:20
    “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and
    he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.”

    And please stop saying that I do not read Bible myself. I have red it from the beginning to the end two times just for the purpose or reading through, and it doesn’t include reading single books or or letters or chapters.

  37. Nikita
    John 13:20
    “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and
    he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.”

    That verse is telling us to except the message that Jesus brings to us as our savior. Not that some apostil making up his own teachings and lying to millions of people. That verses is not stating that in order to be saved that we have to believe in an apostil.
    so try again.
    That is not just it you seem to be blind in the fact that the LLDM apostil is a man, a sinner, and not an angel. Be leave me if you would only know what sins he commits everyday he would be the last person you would believe in.

    Why don’t you find me a verse in the bible that pacifically says that in order for us to be saved then we need an apostil. Because all I have been reading in the bible is that Jesus Christ came to die for us on the cross volunteer so that our sins would be forgiven. Because of The love of God, Because of his Son Jesus Christ we are no longer slaves to sin. The apostils were simply messengers that send the word of God but they are not to be worshiped or seen as a way of salvation, it is not believing in an apostil that will save you it is believing in Jesus that can save you. Any one can bring you the message of God and if you choose to receive it then you receive Jesus not the person that is sending you the message.

  38. John 13:20 says whomsoever and not whatsoever I send, so Jesus did not mean to say that whosoever receives his word or message receives him, but any PERSON that he will send us. It goes in line with him saying to pharisees that if they would really loved God, they had received him, and also, the parable of evil husbandmen.

    Here is more:

    Matthew 10:40-41
    King James Version (KJV)
    40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
    41He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.

    Actually the same message is found once in all four gospels.

    To see the importance of apostles please read I Corinthians 3, 4 and Ephesians 4, Matthew 28:16+, John 17

    The main point of new testament is summarized well in the letters to Hebrews and Romans if that answers your question.

  39. Nikita
    The verses you gave me does not say that we need an apostil for salvation. These verses are given to you to try to support the LLDM apostil, to make it look like the bible is talking about him but it is not. If the bible would have said that their is a great apostil to come named samual whom will change the bible in his own selfish ways then I would believe you.

    you state that The main point of new testament is summarized well in the letters to Hebrews and Romans if that answers your question.

    No it does not. You tell me after you say you read the bible your self then tell me what is the point? what happened in the new testament?

  40. John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

    I Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

    I Corinthians 3:10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
    11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

    I Corinthians 4:15For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
    16Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
    17For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.
    18Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you.
    19But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.

  41. Nikita
    I know that you are trying to preach about how important apostils are but they have helped with what they had seen in the Days of Christ our only savior, and The bible is complete. I have to tell you the truth and say this but The words of Jesus and God and the bible and the holy spirit are a lot more powerful then any prophet can ever be. Nikita dont you understand that LLDM has to talk good about Samuel and they have songs to him and his picture all over thier walls so that The church will keep growing and all focus and praise will be on Samuel. Samual has become an idal and who ever believes and loves some one more then God is worshiping that idal and it is a sin.


    And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, …

    1 Corinthians 10:20-21

    No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.

    Romans 1:25

    Because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

    John 4:23

    But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.

  42. Here is the verse that clearly says why we need not only pastors and ministers in the church but apostles also. Pay close attention to verse 13 and 14.

    Ephesians 4:10-16

    10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
    11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
    14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
    15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
    16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

  43. Still Nikita
    That does not say that we need an apostil for salvation. Do you notice how I am for christ and you are for the apostil? DO you notice that your life is more for the apostil then christ when all you do is try to defend this apostil of LLDM? That is the difference between me and you. I am a Christen you are apostolic. Any how Nikita God bless you and watch over your soul I pray. I will pray for God to give you the chance to understand who he truly is because it is not your fault that you were raised to believe in this apostil more then Christ. I will end this now unless you truly want to ask me something for your own soul and not for your religion.

    In Matthew 15:7-9 (KJV), Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees and scribes saying, “Ye hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoreth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”

  44. I’m for Christ and there was no need for me to shout it all along because that is not what we are talking about, but you still keep quiet about all the verses from the bible that I gave you. You started with that it is not necessary to receive men of God. I gave you a verse that explained that you have to receive everyone that is from God or otherwise you reject Christ. You then said that this verse meant not a person but word of Christ. I then gave another verse that was clearly saying that it was a person. You quietly skipped the answer and did not explain why at first you said it was word of Christ…
    Then you said that there is no need for apostles at this time because we have bible and when I showed you a verse that says that there have to be: apostles, prophets, teachers, ext. TILL EVERYONE COME IN UNITY WITH CHRIST. You again skipped the answer and concluded that you are for Christ and I’m for apostle.
    Also answer one question please. If you scripture itself is enough to bring us to God in this time, how come there are so many christian denominations. How has the right interpretation of bible?
    Be careful quoting Matthew 15: 7-9 until you answer all these questions.

  45. Everything I told you about your verses are true. None of them say that in order for us to be saved then we need to believe in an apostil. There are so maney different beliefs because of little things that people want to except and things that people do not want to believe in the bible. There are so many churches like LLDM that are men made. Men made meaning that it is the rules mad up by a man not God just a Religon and all by works to build more and bigger churches and not of God. That is why it is so important to read the bible, because any one can teach us any thing and if we do not read it in the bible then we will never know if what we are hearing from any paster is true or not.

    Acts 17:24 He is the God who made the world and every thing in it. Since he is lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man made temples, and human hands cant serve his needs for he has no needs. he himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies ever need there is.

  46. I’m very sorry but I did not get a clear explanation what these verses mean:
    Matthew 10:40-41 and John 13-20
    Please explain what Jesus meant when he said those words?

    Every christian denomination claims that they read and interpret bible the right way. How do you know that what you believe is right? That is why I quoted Ephesians 4:10-15
    It says that God gave Apostles, prophets, teachers, ext. WHY? for the perfection of saints, to keep the body fitly joined together that we be no more children tossed to and fro by every wind of the doctrine. FOR HOW LONG? TILL EVERYONE COMES IN UNITY WITH CHRIST. As long as there are people come in unity with Christ, there will be: APOSTLES, PROPHETS, TEACHERS, EXT.

    Acts 17:24 Do not know why you quoted this?

  47. Nikita
    I do not mean to say this the mean way but I have to make it more clear to you. What ever the bible is saying any one can claim that they are who the bible is talking about. Not just that but even with your verses they do not say that we need an apostil for salvation. Nikita why don’t you ask your self the same question how do you know what you believe is right? You think you know because you have your trust in the apostil but you don’t know because you are to blind to find the truth for your self. Not just that but your so called saint apostil rapped many little girls and again you will not believe it because you are to blind believing what he is lying to everyone about is that he is Gods angel but he is a man and a sinner. Now tell me is this the type of person or apostil that I should believe in that rapped innocent girls and takes away from the poor. This apostil of yours that rides limos and has virgin girls as his maids? No thank you like I said I know who I believe in and that is God, and Jesus that died on a cross to save us of our sins. You go ahead and keep making tamales working hard spending all of your gas money and hard working earnings to give it all to the apostil so that he will live a rich and happy life. Keep spending all of your money to go celebrate his birthday and when you see him ask your idol for forgiveness, daaaaaaaaa wrong God honey. SIng songs to him and bow down to him daaaaaaa you have the wrong God the wrong belief, so stop trying to fight a fight that you do not have any proof that he was sent by God. God would not sent selfish rappest to take peoples money and take advantage or the poor.

  48. I’m sorry, but why didn’t you answered the actual questions and switched to personalities?

  49. yes lets skip the apostil rapping little girls that is not important your little verse on profits must be more important. It does not matter what life the apostil is living wright?

  50. If that is not important to you then you are truly brain washed. I am done talking to you.Any how Again God bless you and lead you to the truth,

  51. It is important to talk about everything, but point by point.
    When you skip answering a question and switch to something else, it makes a clear impression that you do not have a good answer.
    I promise that I will answer each of your questions the best I can, but lets keep in in order.

  52. Why? Is it because you do not want to accept bible as a whole and not just verses you like?
    I will pray to God that he will open your heart that you will not ignore the verses that contradict your believes.

    I wish that God bless you.

  53. Good for you Nikita
    you wasted to much of my time being stubern and not reading the verses I gave you. When some one is that close minded to the truth and ignores serious facts happening in the Church of LLDM then their is some serious brain washing going on. All of the verses are true in the bible but that is not the problem the problem is the false apostil that you guys are giving far to much attention to and forgetting the true ways of God. The verses in the bible that you are giving me is not a problem to talk about but you are not paying attention to what is really going on. The man made Church of LLDM and it is not of God, it does not line up with what the bible tells us. I can not continue with you back and forth it is not going any where, I try to help the ones that truly care for their soul and I have a lot of things going on in my life. A lot of lovely things that God has blessed me with and that I am very thank full for, thank you for trying but again I am not interested in being a slave to the false church of LLDM. God bless you and your life with happiness and your family as well.

  54. None of the verses that you gave me contradict what I believe. Jesus is indeed our only savior and salvation is through him, but do not forget I Corinthians 3 where Paul said that he lays a foundation that no one can lay and this foundation is Jesus Christ. There are many more verses saying that we will know Jesus through the work of apostles. Also, the role of the servants of God is not only bring us to Jesus to find salvation, but to keep us there. Paul, again, is a good example when he exhorts the church by saying: “Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?” In addition, Paul said in II Timothy that his work is over. Paul’s work was the church 2000 years ago, whom he labored to present without a wrinkle. You are not his work and do not try to claim be cause: “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.”
    Every apostle had his own work. That is why Paul said that he will not go were others have labored lest he build on someone else’s foundation.

    You on the other hand claimed that we do not need apostles at this time and that it is not important to receive people send by God. Both claims go against the word of God.
    If you still refuse to believe that, I can again explain every verse as long as it takes to open your heart.

  55. Nikita
    You do not seem to understand the part that even though you are wrong about needing an apostil for salvation the apostil from LLDM does not fit the way an apostil should be, even an apostil should be a slave to God. An apostil is not perfect, is not an angel and can not take sins for any one. That is what you are lacking, the fact that people in Jail do not need an apostil to pray to God and have salvation, slaves in the world slaves to what ever does not need an apostil to have salvation, no one needs an apostil for salvation except threw the blood of Jesus Christ.

    1 timothy 2;15 There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and human beings-a human, the Messiah Jesus.

    1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    So know do we need an apostil for salvation? No
    I rest my case.

  56. First let me point a clear ignorance on your part when you claim that apostles cannot forgive sins.

    John 20:21-23
    21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
    22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
    23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

    If you cannot accept these very obvious verses, then how can I explain you the rest?
    Just like Jesus said that how can I explain you heavenly things when you do not understand earthly?

  57. Nikita
    Jesus Breath on the apostils 2011 years ago they are now dead. You have no proof at all that jesus did the same for the apostil from LLDM. The apostil from LLDM is false because his words and acts in life does not match the bible. So explain to me then, were any of the apostils angels sense you are so smart? If you guys go exactly by the bible then how is the apostil from LLDM an angel when none of the apostils ever claimed to be angels?

  58. Wait.
    First answer a question. Can an apostle forgive sins or not?
    I’m asking a general question that will apply to any true apostle of God
    (Paul, John, Peter, ext)

    Whether, Samuel Joaquin is a true apostle of God and all the things that applied to the biblical apostles apply to him as well, we will see after we test all that he teaches for the tree is known by its fruits. I hope once again that we can have an honest conversation without jumping all over the place, but go point by point.

    Lets finish the question above before we go any further.
    I appreciate your patience.

  59. no no no no no only jesus died for us on a cross to forgive us for our sins and no one else on earth or on heaven other then God can forgive us for our sins.

    Ephesians 2:8,9 plainly tell us… “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Again we read in Romans 4:5… “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Our eternal salvation is based upon our faith in Christ’s work of redemption to forgive our sins; and not upon anything we can do to merit salvation. No one can merit (i.e., earn) salvation, for it is the FREE GIFT of God (Romans 5:15; 6:23), paid for by Jesus’ precious blood (1st Peter 1:18,19).

    I told you before that you have more faith in the apostil then you have for Jesus christ. Jesus is our savior he is Gods son and not a man he is alive today to listen to me when I ask him for forgiveness he is the only one that truly knows my heart and not a man not an apostil, does not have the Godly power to read my heart to truly know if I am sorry or not, only God can judge that. All I need is Jesus because he is the only mediator between men and God. That is it Nikita I am disgusted of your love for this apostil and I do not want to talk about him any more. Jesus is our only savior and if you do not want to truly look into the bible to see the truth then you will be judged by God in the last days not by me. I already know what your religion is all about and I already know that it is impossible to have you see the truth that is why I am not interested in spending all my time trying to convince some one something that they will die for the apostil. Only can can help you see not me Have a good blessed life Nikita.

  60. hello everyone i have been reading these comments some of the nice someon them not so nice but i could not help but notice the argument between sum and nikita …sum i dnt think anyone saying that jesus wasnt the one who died for are sins i am most sure that he was the one that died on the cross for us so that we can find mercy beliving through him. but is it just that easy its says in the bible that even the demons belive in jesus and tremble so for them beliving in jesus will they be saved??? i have been reading the bible a bit and i hhave noticed in every chapter there is always a man of god from genusis all the wat to revalations i think anthing is possible through jesus christ and god is the almighty he has no beganing and has no end so is it impossible for god to rise apostle in these days ??i dnt think it is . when a women was wiping jesus feet with a speical oil usin her hair only the others were mad at that they said she should have give it to the poor but jesus silinced them and clarified one thing that in her heart she was honoring gods son she wasnt praising him just givin him the respect he diseverd and even then jesus says when they came up to and said he was the good teacher he said the only one that was good was his father in heaven jesus is the fondation of everything but says in the bible that he rises first apostles then ministers, prophets and ect so wat does that tell me that humans cant just go to god we are not pure god always has someone leading his people and thats wat i have realized with lldm they hono the servant of god not praise him

  61. Sum, then please explain these verses:

    John 20:21-23
    21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
    22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
    23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

    What did Jesus mean? He clearly gives authority to forgive sins.
    Perhaps before you give an answer, think a little about how Jesus forgives our sins.
    I hope it will give you a clue.

  62. Nikita
    Ok nakita go ahead and go by these verses you can fallow those apostles 2011 years ago those were the apostles he gave the authority to. “Have fun”

  63. joseph c
    believe me it is much better to fallow God and Jesus his son that saved us from sin rather to trust the words of an ordinary sinning man. Samual as as bigger of a sinner then you and so was the apostils in the days of Jesus or savior. No one no man not in heaven or on earth can be as pure as Jesus was and is today. Jesus is Gods son, he was born by the spirit of God into a vergin, no how a man would be born normally from sin. Only threw the blood of Jesus we can be saved and if we believe in anyone that comes today and clames to be an angel of God then we are most likely to be doomed into hell because everyone can lie but not Jesus not God not the true bible that can save you rather then man.

  64. joseph c
    It is good news to God that you are reading the bible. I strongly encourage you to do so. always pray for the truth before reading it so that the lord will help you by his holy spirit to understand it. Remember that Jesus is Gods son not a prophet, not an angel and not a man, or an apostil, Jesus is Gods son again Gods son.

  65. Sum, please pay close attention.
    You, just now, said that you did not care what our Lord Jesus Christ said.
    Who do you follow? Our Lord or whosoever taught you what you believe?
    I pray that you will not be like a pharisee but accept EVERY word of God.
    We dwell not only on this verse, but on every verse of the bible, but you only on whatsoever you like and the rest you cast behind your back. Here are words of exhortation for you:

    II Timothy 3:16-17
    16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

    I wish that you will repent of you error and accept ALL THE SCRIPTURE and not only what you like for the above reasons.

  66. To see whether he is a true apostle or not, we first have to check that the doctrine he preaches is the same as 2000 years ago.

    I will not ask you accept him, but I will go with you through the doctrinal issues.

    So, lets get to the bottom of our last question.

    Lets forget about apostle Samuel for now. Lets only talk about bible and what was 2000 years ago.


  67. nikita there is no point in arguing or keeping on trying como dice no es para el quere o el que corre sino el que dios tenga misercordia

    dtb nikita vengo de corpus christi soy membro de la lldm
    si para otro no es apostol para mi es SJF apostol de jesucristo por la voluntad de dios

  68. Joseph.
    I know, but I still hope that God may open his heart as well as others that pay attention to this conversation. Also, I think it will open the eyes of the people that LLDM doesn’t teach anything outside of the bible, but rather many people believe things that are not biblical.

  69. Nikita
    Joseph is right LLDM is your belief and it is not mine. I can not believe in something that is not biblical and is man made. I am not a guy I am a married mom with little ones. No you do not need an apostil for salvation they were simply a messanger for God to preach his true gospels, not to claim that they are an angel or at a higher athorty then where they truly stand. Their should be no songs for any one or any apostil other then G0d and his son Jesus Christ. The apostil lifts him self with songs, birthdays and maids and that is taking advantage of the poor that truly believe in him. Only Jesus can save!!!!

    1 timothy 2;15 There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and human beings-, the Messiah Jesus Christ.

  70. Sum, please like I said forget about our time for now and lets just talk about what is in the bible. I promise that I will give you an explanation to I Timothy 2:15 as soon as we get to the bottom of our last question: John 20:21-23. Jumping all over the place wont get us anywhere, so lets kill one question before we get to the other.

    Let me bring to remembrance that you said: “no no no one except Jesus can forgive sins.” Your believe directly contradicts the words of Jesus himself in John 20:23 where he clearly gives authority to the 11 apostles to forgive sins.


  71. Sum, where are you?
    What is your answer?

    I hope you did not abandon our conversation because there much to learn about the word of God and not according to what men say but according to what bibles says.
    I pray that God will open your heart, as well as hearts of many more people in the world that they may fined salvation.

  72. Sum, my only hope that you will repent and accept the word of God.

    To everyone else, I will be happy to answer any questions concerning the doctrine of the church La Luz Del Mundo and will support every point with verses from the scripture.
    This is the reason why I converted because everything I heard was in the Bible and not like others say one thing but bible something else.

    May God bless all that are truly looking for the Lord and love him.

  73. Nikita you need to repent and ask for forgiveness because you put the apostil of yours before God.

  74. I’m glad you are here still.
    Please answer my last question.
    Our conversation will not continue until you answer this question.
    Thank you.

  75. Once again, if anyone has any questions a real doctrine of the church of God and not man made additions, please write here or e-mail me at
    It is a blessing for me to answer any questions and bring people on the path of righteousness.

    I was born and raised in Russian Orthodox Church and thanks to God, I met a member of this church who explained that much of what I took for granted is not biblical at all. After I started to read bible myself, it reinforced my conviction even more because all that I was spoken was there and nothing against it. It was nothing like others take quotes out of context to fit their needs. For example Jehovah’s Witnesses quote that only 144000 will go to heaven and just a few verses later it says that there will be a countless multitude that follows them and this they say nothing about.

    I truly hope that that there are people here who read and see the example of false ideas among men, like SUM said that no one can forgive sins except Jesus, which is true if you only select quotes like Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, if you read the whole bible, you will see that Jesus himself gave authority to forgive sins to the apostles. And trust me, there are a lot more of similar examples.

    By the way, Sum I hope that you will repent for denying the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and accept that apostles have the authority to forgive sins.

    May God bless all that seek him and looking for salvation.

  76. sadly Nikita you are worshiping a false idol. Just like other religions that you talk about you have the biggest idol you are worshiping more evil then any idol. Good luck in trying to make others believe in your apostil.

  77. luz del mundo, as know as “Samuelismo” are a bounch of poor people whom worshipp to a man, their leader, SJF. This is not a Christian Chruch, its Satanic.

    Infiltrado en lldm

  78. Why Satanic? Evidence please?
    It is easy to say what you think, but is it truth or biased opinion.
    Lets talk biblically please.

    Is being poor satanic?
    Is giving while being poor Satanic?
    Is giving to an apostle satanic?

    If none of these is satanic, what is that you call us satanic?

  79. Nikita, you are satanic, because:

    your church lie about many things, things like their membership, like is necessarry to have an apostil as a grade, for having church, etc. and the father of lie, is satan.

    Your church is satanic because it worshipp to a man, a simple mortal, in the “oraciones” only talk about your leader, sjf and very few times talk about Jesuchrist! its clear that your leader had taken the place of Jesus in your hearts, that is idolatry, that is being satanic, an anti-Christ, a false Christ, a false prophet.

    All of you will rot in hell.

  80. Lets talk about that.
    First of all, apostle is necessary in the church hierarchy and God put apostles first.

    Ephesians 4:10-16
    (this is for those who did not read the whole conversation and just jumped in with his conclusion)

    Also, please give an example of us worshiping an apostle, as I have not found one yet.

  81. Nikita I would have to agree with Infiltrado it truly is satanic. And you know what it is sad and it makes me want to cry for my loved ones that they are a part of a satanic group. That truly brakes my heart. I never looked at it that way but It has to be seen for what LLDM truly is all about. It is simple Nikita, if it was Jesus that died for our sins and is the only mediator between Man and God then their is nothing more to talk about. It is so clear that LLDM puts their apostil before Jesus our only true savior and that is what makes is so satanic. Nikita you will find your self defending your aposil before you would defend Christ for the rest of your life and that is a sin. God comes before any man any apostil and anything ever in heaven and in earth. Only God can save you. You will find your self before God him self before Jesus standing in the true light and you will still defent your apostil you will Go against God to defend your apostil. Good luck with your soul Nikita.

  82. Sum, please answer my questions first before continuing to talk.
    It is easy to say what you want, but is it any different from pharisees?
    First answer my questions to show that you are not like them.

  83. Nikita you are hard headed if you were to get raped by Samual you would probably call it a blessing, that is how hardheaded you are.

  84. I’m not hard headed, I just want you to accept the truth which is in the bible, and just like Paul said “I’m not a man-pleaser.”
    Please do not use things that “might” happen. This is not a way to see if one is from God.

  85. Hi Sum, YEs, I understand you. This situation make me cry and broke my heart (My situation is similar to your’s).

    Nikita, your awful sect missunderstand Ephesios 4:20, It is true that is absolutly necessary TO HAVE THE APOSTOLIC DOCTRINE for foundations of the Jesuschrist Church. That is what the True Church have, the FOUNDATIONS in the Doctrine of the apostles, This doctrine is found in the New Testament, in the history of the teachings and live OF JESUS. This we already have it, IN THE BIBLE! This is the CORRECT interpretation of Ep 4:20, Jesuschrist is the main foundation, The Apostolic Doctrine are the colummns and this doctrine is not about the apostle themselves, NO. It’s about THE TEACHING AND LIVE of Jesus that they saw and received from JesusChrist himself!

    Sum, I hope God allows your relatives to get out of that awful sect. I hope the same for mine’s too. God may help all of us.

  86. Sum, Do you know what happened with the Oscar Nuno web site? It seems the site is currently unavailiable. Do you know what happened with Frank Medina? The last thing I knew was He had gave up about his relatives in lldm. Im near of that too. Im giving up, sect lldm is colective madness, and EVIL 100%. I just can’t stand on foot longer. I want to give up. God may help all of us.

  87. Luz del Mundo IS AS EVIL AS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS. YEs! The REAL objetives of both churches are to get politic POWER and position, and bounchs of MONEY. Both institutions doesnt care anything about their membership, only if the members have money, they get value, If not, They dont care nothing at all. Because both churches, both intitutions, my life is ruined. God may help all of us.

  88. Hello Infiltrado en LLDM
    I am just like you, I do not know what happend to Oscars sight but there sure was a war going on there. From my guess I would say that Oscar was tired of all of the hardheaded people from LLDM that just would not listen and Colin was using most of his time trying to help LLDM, no one was listening except for the true believers of Jesus christ. It is hard and I for now have kept all of my feelings about LLDM away from my husbans family just so we would all be close. I still tell the truth and I am still not giving up that is why I am online, but as far as the ones I have been trying to tell only God can help them now, I just have to pray and be pacient. I have not heard from anyone on the sight of LLDM but Chrisis sight is still open and there are LLDM members that still want to talk.

  89. Before accusing anyone of anything, let’s go through the bible.
    Notice, I did not accuse anyone without a very strong reason because that is not what Jesus taught.

    One more time please. What do these verses mean?

    10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
    11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
    Now a simplified version:
    10. Jesus
    11. Gave body of ministers
    12. To make us perfect
    13. Until his return

    What isn’t clear here? What have we perverted?
    Please explain where did you come with your explanation for these verses?

  90. Nikita, get lost. “What have we perverted?” you said. I say: ALL, EVERYTHING, your cult is an awful worshipp to a perverted MAN.

    GET LOST! you’re a fanatic one of many Samuelitas

  91. I’m sorry to say it, but you reaction makes me feel that you are just afraid to face the truth and answer my questions. Also, please examine the manner for your response whether it is christian or not.

  92. HAHAHAHA, Nikita IM CHRISTIAN….you are only a dummy COPYCAT of a Christian, YOU ARE NOT CHRISTIAN you are SAMUELITA

    YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!! My response about the Ephesian 2:20 or 4:10 is THE TRUE. Apostolic doctrine IS THE TEACHINGS AND LIFE OF JESUSCHRIST, There are NOT MORE!!

    Do you follow the teaching of Jesus or the teaching of that perverted man, SJF? aNSWER IS: You follow the teachings of Samuel Joaquin, and these have nothing to do with the Jesus teachings

    You are a shame for REAL Christianim only A COPYCAT

    Why do you not TELL US about HOW is your cult? How about the liturgy LLDM follow?

    HAHAHAHA ALL in your cult is worshipp and talk about the false apostle! I was in cults where the ministry told us about the heart, lungs and every part of the Samuel’s body!! (He prayed to GOd to bless all parts of the Samuel’s Body) WHAT DISgusting!!

    So, Come on, Bring it on, tell us about the LLDM liturgy.

  93. Hey Nikita, Shall we start as well with the following?

    What does LLDM say about the JesusChrist promise, in Mathew 28:20???

    I say this because sect LLDM says that there was not church in 19 centuries!!


    What about the Jesus Promise in Mathew 16:18????

    LLDM teachs that hell defeat to the Church of Christ for 19 centuries!!

    Can you answer this Nikita???????

  94. I promise, I will answer your question after you answer mine because I asked you first.

    Ephesians 4:10+
    10. Jesus
    11. Gave body of ministers
    12. To make us perfect
    13. Until his return

    What have we perverted?
    Please explain where did you come with your explanation for these verses?

  95. Ok, I have answered above, but its OK I’ll do it again.

    You’re right in understanding Ep 4:10. The mistake that llldm does is to say that through samuel joaquin there is salvation. NO, absolutly WRONG! Salvation comes from GOD and GOD alone!!! So you turn up to Samuel in an Idoll, because your worshipp him instead of the True GOD! You worshipp to Samuel by that awful and excessive honor with LLDM gives to him. You think that he is the only minister of GOD in earth and thats “the why” he is sent for redemption and salvation. WHAT DISGUSTING! because only JESUSCHRIST was sent for redemption and salvation of the CHOOSEN PEOPLE. Tell me, Did Samuel die for your sins, nikita? Was samuel crucified and then resurrected? then Why LLDM equals this man with the SON OF GOD?

    Im sure, that you will rot in hell, along with Samuel.

    Ok, Now, ANSWER ME!

  96. and I tell you something more: GOD through his Holy Spirit is who calls, teach and sent to his ministers who can be called as APOSTLES because this word means: Anointed, Envoy, SO the difference with the First apostles is they received power from Jesuschrist but they remained as disciples, only disciples of Christ, then we conclude that “apostle” is not a grade but an office, SO, GOD not changes; HE continue calling, teaching (in seminars, because through the word his grace is ministered) and then sending to his anointed, his ministers of the word. This is what God did in Protest Reform. SORRY Nikita but GOD always fullfill his promises!!! (Mat 20:28; Mat 16:18; John 14:16)

  97. You still haven’t answered the question, so let me rephrase it.

    Do you believe that there have to be apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, miracle workers in the church together at all times?

  98. Nikita, I have already answered, but OK! I’ll do again:

    If you mean “apostles” as the ones which had been choosen by Jesuschrist himself, then i would say: NO, because they have to be witnees of Christ’s Resurrection Acts 1:20. I mean, these tittles (apostles, prophets) are not grades, but jobs. Only jobs. Yes, yes, yes, I can forecast your answer: “Pablo was not witnees of Christ Resurrection and he is apostle, because Christ choose him” BUT I tell you that Pablo WAS indeed witness of Christ Resurrection because Christ revailed this to him. SO you would say: “Then, it is the same that happened to Samuel Joaquin, He was choosen by Christ and the same fashion as Pablo, then is apostle too” Well, I can tell you that you’re wrong. This because Samuel and his father Eusebio always, always they preached themselves. Remeber your foundational slogan? a plagium of God’s promise to Abraham: Gen 12:1-2 But NOW its supposed that God give to Eusebio (Aaron) the same promise: “Your name will be aaron, I’ll make it famous across the world and it will be for blessing” HAHAHAHA What pathetic hoax!

    I can call that awful trash Lie and hoax, because Aaron and Samuel preach to themselves and not Jesuschrist, the only SON of GOD.

    OK, lets continue with the second part of my answering. Eph 4:10+ tell us in concordance with Eph 2:20 that with “apostles” Pablo was meaning the Doctrine that apostles carry because they had been received it from Jesuschrist in person. THATS ALL. This per Jesus teaching in Marc 10:42, along with Pablo teaching: 1 Cor 3:4-7. So in the Church of Christ are not tittle neither grades, only JOBs, because we are all brothers. Only we have Bishops (prebistery) and diacons. There are not any “modern apostles” only their Testimony!! (Apostolic Doctrine) and this is in the Bible!

    Understand now?

  99. They are jobs, but they are all different as it says in 1 Corinthians 12:28. So, do not try to say that if word apostle means appointed and prophet means mouth of God that they are all basically the same thing and are equal to deacon. If Jesus or Paul says that he is come to minister unto us, it doesn’t mean he is that dame bishop. They are not the same. They are different jobs and they all must be present in the church at the same time till Christ’s return.

    There is another big difference as well. Election of apostles and prophets doesn’t involve the will of the person to be appointed, but the bishops and deacons do. Other wise Paul would mention about that in the letter to Timothy.

    Further more, you are not the work of Paul or any other apostle for that matter. Every apostle had his own work. That is why Paul said that he will go to a place where other have no worked yet lest he builds on someone else’s foundation and this foundation is Christ. However, every apostle laid his own foundation for his certain people and this is the reason why Paul once said that he is happy that he did not baptize them. After that Paul said that his work is finished and that is going to rest.

    Apostles work does not only involve to bring someone to Christ, but to keep them there as well. The evidence of that are all the letters of different apostles which by the way are not addressed to any of us. That is the reason there have to be a living apostle in the church to take care of it. When Christ saw a crowd of people, he said that they are like ship without the shepherd. After Jesus left, he gave this job to the apostles to take care of his ship. How can a dead man take care of anyone?

    You may want to explain what Jesus said here:
    John 12:35-36
    35Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
    36While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

  100. Nikita, you said:

    “They are different jobs and they all must be present in the church at the same time till Christ’s return”

    Then, WHERE ARE the Prophets in LLDM?

    yOU SAID:

    “There is another big difference as well. Election of apostles and prophets doesn’t involve the will of the person to be appointed, but the bishops and deacons do”

    what the..? involve the will? NO, Holy Spirit CALLS to his ministers, IS NOT BY PERSON WILL, this is a calling and then for own will, the choosen person will attend to seminars. But the calling is first and its performed by GOD. This is the true election of GOD, this is the same way as GOD call and get his choosen ones for salvation Acts 2:47.

    you said:

    “, every apostle laid his own foundation for his certain people”

    What the???

    his own foundation? NO, you are confusing with preaching, but the foundations ARE THE SAME, the Apostolic Doctrine of Jesus’s Teaching and Life. PReaching is performed by the ministers of God and every member of the church, Here laid the mistake of LLDM.

    About the ships without shepherd, well this is the job of the bishops, be the assitants of the shepherd to watch for a healty doctrine for the ships BUT is GOD who takes care of his people and give them salvation. (Jesus is the shepherd) the bishops would be as the ship-dog that watches to the ships. All of them (ships and dogs) are under the command of the shepherd, JESUSCHRIST.

    For all above, your church is a HOAX AND AN AWFUL SECT.

  101. There are prophets in LLDM too.

    Acts 2:47 is describing calling to to Christ of all Christians. In the letter to Timothy, it says if someone wants to be a bishop or deacon he desires a good work. On the other hand nothing like this is said about apostles or prophets. It is just the opposite. None of them wanted(desired) to take this position.

  102. Nikita, you said:

    “There are prophets in LLDM too.”


    There ARE NOT prophets in LLDM. Only the leader Samuel is who receives revelation from GOD himself. ONLY Samuel. Therefore THERE ARE NOT PROPHETS iN LLDM.

    your sect is a huge pile of lies.


  103. Infiltrado en LLDM
    Nikita has given her heart to the apostil from LLDM. She is not on the side of God or Jesus our only savior she worships the apostil. She thinks that she is worshiping God but if the apostil is not for God then he is for satin like you have said before. There is no use in trying to help her, she will not open her eyes to the truth, I know becaue she ignores everything in the bible and dwells on one verse, the apostil.

  104. I’m sorry but I’m a man. I’m Russian and I do not worship any apostle.
    When you make a claim, please provide evidence.
    If someone makes a claim and doesn’t provide evidence, he ether doesn’t know what he is talking about or just lies.

    Sum, Jesus said that if your love him, you will listen to what he says, and he said that apostles can forgive sins. So, you better accept his words if you love him.

  105. Oh ok you are a guy sorry. If you love him then you would know that God said no man comes to him but threw Jesus. Sooooooooooooo what now? He did not say no man comes threw him but threw the apostil.

  106. We will come to Jesus through an apostle. It is written in John 17.
    I’m still waiting fo your answer why you do not accept Lord’s words about giving the authority to forgive sins to apostles.

  107. Besides John 17 it is also said in 1 Corinthians 3

    10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
    11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

  108. Ok so only Jesus can save us then why is all of your songs towrds this apostil there is no one more worthy of singing praises to then Jesus Christ. No one ever not on earth and not in the heavens.

  109. There are indeed a number of songs about apostle, BUT!
    Each and every song we sing “For the honor and glory of the Lord”

  110. “Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wright” sing songs to the apostil in the name of Jesus Christ. I dont think so. Only Jesus is worthy no one else.

  111. I have never heard anyone in our church saying to sing a song to apostle, but I clearly heard you declining the words of Jesus when he gave the authority to forgive sins to apostles. How many times have I asked you to give me an answer why you choose the teaching of men over the words of our Lord?

    I will not say a word more till you answer this question. It is a clear ignorance on your side.

  112. i read the songs that ur church is singing to the apostil and it does not get more clear then that. it is wrong to have songs of worship to an apostil period. only Jesus is worthy.

  113. Please give an example.
    All songs we sing are to God and I would certainly exhort any brother that does otherwise.

  114. If someone is named in a song it doesn’t mean that the song is not addressed to God. Psalms are great example.

  115. Ok TroLLDM, what is the difference between Aaron Joaquin and Joseph Smith, Rev. Moon, Prophet Muhammad, Felix Manalo, Jose Luis Jesus de Miranda, and every other person who claimed being visited by God/Jesus/Angels/etc. and “elected” to be the leader of the “true faith”?

  116. Sum, if you did not know psalms are songs, and David there sometimes sings about himself but still to God.

    ———–, the answer is in Galatians 1
    If someone says he is from God we shall now him by what he teaches, and if he teaches something else from what has been taught we shall now that he is not from God.
    Every tree shall be known by its fruit and the fruit of a teacher is his teaching.

  117. That doesn’t answer my question. What did LLDM do that the Mormons, the Unification Church, Iglesia Ni Cristo and other sects didn’t?

  118. Is worshipping a man following the bible? Is exploiting your members following the bible? Is living in luxury and having temples built in your name following the bible? Is ordering your followers to vote for a certain party following the bible? Is raping women and molesting children following the bible?

  119. #1 I will do it all over again. We do not worship a man. If all you mean is that we mention or sing about an apostle, then PLEASE read psalms. Take psalm #1 for example. What is it about? Please tell me?

    #2 What do you mean by exploitation? I was in this church 6 years now and did not see any exploitation. EVERYTHING is voluntary, depending on every brother’s faith.

    #3 Living in luxury is not bad because everything he has has been given by us. Remember that woman that put an expensive perfume on Jesus’ hair? Was it a luxury? Yes. Was it necessary? Not. Was it a WRONG thing to do by faith? NO! If you say yes, then you are not better then Judas. Also, let me bring to remembrance words of apostle Paul Galatians 4:14 “And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.” If it is not wrong to give to receive an apostle as Jesus, it is not wrong to give to him as to Jesus according to once faith.
    Please clarify what do you mean ” having temples built in your name.”

    #4 I personally did not hear that anyone has been ORDERED to vote certain way.

    #5 Who raped women? People were also accusing Jesus and apostles of wrong doing, but did they do wrong just because people accused them? God is the only judge who knows the works of men. That is why God specifically ordered to have at least two witnesses in the law because he knew that people are prone to false accusations.

  120. Admit it, your so-called apostle is a rapist and a pedophile. He’s escaped justice only because he bribes the Mexican government. And he lives in mansions while most of his followers live in poor homes.

  121. I gave you biblical answers to your questions and you still say it is wrong for him to live in the places that we built. You are just like Judas saying that we rather give this to poor.

    And again, why did Jesus said do not judge and you won’t be judged? It is because you do not know the whole picture. Anger and jealousy can drive people to do many evil thing, just like they did with Jesus and his disciples. I personally have not seen nor anyone that I know ever seen apostle Samuel doing what he is accused of. And I know many people that are very close to the apostle including my father in law who is a deacon.

    Just like in the bible, when people did not know what to answer to Jesus, they say that he casts evil spirits by Beelzebub. This tactic only shows that you have nothing to argue but to switch to personality.

    If you wish to talk about doctrinal points ACCORDING TO BIBLE AND NOT YOUR OWN OPINION, then please write. I will be glad to answer and will hope that you will understand the mystery of the word of God.

  122. Nikita, obviously you have been indoctrinated and brainwashed to the point nothing will convince you of the flaws and wrongdoings in your cult. It is common that pseudo-Christian sects like LLDM use the bible to justify their actions, giving it a VERY liberal interpretation.

    Your church claims Aaron and Samuel performed miracles. Can they prove that in front of everyone, on national TV?

  123. Now, I understand why Jesus gave us all of the examples.
    You are just like the people that said to Jesus: “Come down from the cross that we may believe.” Did they forget all the miracles that he did before? No! Or, after Jesus fed five thousand, didn’t people forget that he did so the next time he had to feed three thousand?
    Jesus knew that miracles will not make people believe That is why he didn’t come down from the cross. Infact, it is a wrong thing to do because Devil will seduce the whole world by miracles.
    The only way to know if one is from God is to listen to what he teaches. That is why I’ve been inviting you to talk about the doctrine that I heard from him and compare it with the apostle’s teaching.

  124. Yeah, because Jesus told his followers to give him money, and hundreds of luxurious temples, and a harem, and songs dedicated to him, etc.

  125. Please notice that you do not want to talk about the doctrine but always switch to personality.

    About giving read here so please stop that or you are no better than Judas.
    You have to be biblically illiterate not to know that. If you are, I will gladly show you more verses.
    -1 Corinthians 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

    Temples are not build for him, but for us. They are houses of prayer that are build for OUR convenience.

    Where is the harem? Have you seen it? I haven’t and God is the witness to my words that I’m not lying. Indoctrination has nothing to do with it because if I’m aware of this and just close my eyes, then I’m a liar.

    About songs, I already explained well enough. If you will stand in front a white wall and keep arguing that it is black. What can I do?

    Also, please not that you did not use any biblical reference in any of your arguments.

  126. Where is the harem, you say? I guess all those “vestales” are just for decoration.

    The churches and the songs, you must be blind and deaf not to notice all the mentions of SJF in the hymns and temples.

    And don’t give me that “bible” red herring since most of the other churches claim the same thing. Show us EMPIRICAL evidence that SJF truly performs miracles, and is the “apostle” of a deity.

  127. If you may, please read all the verses in order.

    (Luke 27:42)
    42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
    (John 4:48)
    48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
    (John 12:37)
    37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
    (Luke 11:29)
    29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
    (I Corinthians 1:20-25)
    20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
    21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
    22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
    23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
    24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
    25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
    (Matthew 24:24)
    24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
    (II Thessalonians 2:9)
    9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    (Revelations 13:14)
    14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
    (Matthew 24:25)
    25 Behold, I have told you before.

    Now, keep looking for your “empirical” evidence which are not what Jesus told us to do.
    I only wish that God will open your heart to the understanding of his word that you may find salvation.
    Thank you.

  128. Useless to argue with someone like you. Pathetic that this blog is mostly active due to the Luzdelmundo cultists defending their corrupt excuse of a church.

  129. It is useless to argue because you never use bible in your arguments.
    None of you gave any counter argument to my bible quotes.
    If I use quote to support wrong ideas, please point out why I cannot use certain quotes.
    But, If you never do so and just say that we are brainwashed cultists, it only proves that you have nothing to argue.

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